guild wars economy? - Guild Wars Forums

drunk n angry · Oct 11, 2009, 02:19 PM // 14:19

hi guys> i have heard so many times how the guildwars economy is in the tank, but my question is how? i usually hear this when people talk about uwsc's causing the cost of ecto to drop. or the red resign days dropping zkeys to 4kand under. but isnt this actually the opposite of a bad economy? when your guild wars gold can buy you more that makes the economy good right?

i mean when i go to the store and i can buy 2 loaves of bread for a dollar i dont complain and say man this economy is crap that my dollar gets me 2 loaves of bread i should only be able to get one.

if your gw gold gets you more isnt the economy good? eventually when they nerf uwsc's ectos will go back up and obby armor will cost more to attain again. and ectos will be hoarded again.

is it i'm wondering if its the people who hoarded ectos and zkeys from when they were 5k plus and thought the price would only go up who now think the economy is bad? but that does not reflect the economy, that is what you call a bad investment. dont invest in things that generate themselves and you will be able to retain your gold better. things like the kunavang are great investments as they will not be released again so there is a limited number of them and even a more limited number of them that are undedicated. just my thoughts of the day> converse peoples

Island Guardian · Oct 11, 2009, 03:12 PM // 15:12

no. more noobs buy more bread. bread now is in a shortage when it shouldnt be. bread is needed for life. no bread=death. bad econ.

Quaker · Oct 11, 2009, 03:22 PM // 15:22

It's all relative. In the case of the loaves of bread, the economy is good for you because you get two loaves of bread for 1 dollar, but it's not good for the baker who used to get 1 dollar for each loaf. In the real world, that might mean that bakers would go bankrupt, stores would close and unemployment would rise.
In GW, it's all fantasy gold in a fantasy world, so there are no real consequences. However, with ecto, for example, getting an ecto as a drop during "normal" game play would not be as much of a big deal when farmers get them easily and sell them cheap. Also, things that require ectos, such as FoW armor, lose their status because they become so much easier to get. So, for those non-farmer players, who were counting on getting the occasional rare ecto drop to help pay for things, the economy has gone bad. And, to some extent, the very essence of the game (as an RPG), has been lost.

Killerminds · Oct 11, 2009, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Its gone bad because things we spent hours getting can now be obtained by pressing 1-2-3.

Devastating Flames · Oct 11, 2009, 03:38 PM // 15:38

i think the economy is good atm and is high in gw cost of ectos are up 18-20 for 100k arm braces 50e+ and many other going way higher

Mylina · Oct 11, 2009, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Wait until SF get's nerfed, that'll be fun.

AlsPals · Oct 11, 2009, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mylina

Wait until SF get's nerfed, that'll be fun.

Man, when that nerf finally does come, I may have to stop playing GW2 to see how the old game fares.

Killerminds · Oct 11, 2009, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlsPals

Man, when that nerf finally does come, I may have to stop playing GW2 to see how the old game fares.

This made me laugh

Yawgmoth · Oct 11, 2009, 05:37 PM // 17:37

An economy in a GAME is also an important REWARDING TOOL - a good strong economy ensures that players are properely rewarded for their play. It's getting BAD when it's the opposite, examples:

-Loot scaling greatly limits pure cash entering the economy but it doesn't limit Gold items - ridiculous overfarm in Hard Mode is possible (15+ golds per hour) while there's not enough gold in the economy to pay for all those -> golds and mods from them are close to worthless. It's BAD because it killed the value of drops players that don't do extreme farming get, especially from CHESTS, which have keys/lockpicks costs not changed upon introduction of loot scaling (effectively costing about 2x as much) but value of their drops is far far smaller.

-A player with many accounts could get a TON of Z-KEYS per month from XTH for doing practically nothing, the gains were comparable to what an active PvP player made in a whole month of playing. They were getting the same rewards but it hurts the player who had to 'work' for them because they were worth significantly less.

Cheap items like golds or Z-Keys don't make the economy good, it's exactly the opposite - cheap or too cheap stuff makes the game LESS REWARDING for those who actually play it (as opposed to abusing it) - this makes a BAD game economy.

Reformed · Oct 11, 2009, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Whatever damage you seem to think happened to the reserve side of GW took place in 2007 and occasionally we get a hiccup. It's easier now than ever before to amass wealth so instead of being prudent (or patient) you have even more fast money flooding the marketplace in a system with unlimited resources. The hustlers get richer and the workers blow their savings on shiny crap they don't need.

Eskimoz · Oct 11, 2009, 07:40 PM // 19:40

It's called "deflation" friend.....and it sucks.

BrettM · Oct 11, 2009, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

It's all relative. In the case of the loaves of bread, the economy is good for you because you get two loaves of bread for 1 dollar, but it's not good for the baker who used to get 1 dollar for each loaf. In the real world, that might mean that bakers would go bankrupt, stores would close and unemployment would rise.

Exactly! The same way all the manufacturers of digital watches, calculators, and other consumer electronics all went bankrupt when the prices of those things started to fall. Now you can get a cheap digital watch for a couple of bucks and a really nice one for under $100, rather than the crappy LED watches that few could afford when they first came out as they cost around $500. So now nobody makes consumer electronics and all the people who worked for those manufacturers are unemployed and all the stores are closed.

There is absolutely no chance that a baker could not only survive but get wealthy and hire more people if his profit per loaf was cut in half while his sales tripled. He would have absolutely no incentive, with bread flying off the shelves, to borrow capital and modernize his plant to decrease production costs. Poor baker!

Oh, wait ...

Deakon · Oct 12, 2009, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

Also, things that require ectos, such as FoW armor, lose their status because they become so much easier to get.

I think Quaker pretty much sums it up in one sentence... It's all about status.

The baker buys the things he needs to make bread, pays rent/utilities and any other costs for running a business so there is a need to earn a certain income so when Wal-Mart opens up a bakery and starts charging less, it hurts the baker because the demand is lowered and the supply is increased. But that's business.

Fortunately in GW there is an unlimited supply of ecto and zkeys. The only thing that can influence the sale value is the demand. But what has happened is that using the tools given to us, players have found a more efficient way to farm these items and have kept up with demand.

The problem lies mainly with those who farm(ed) these items (in the spirit in which the game intended) and have a stockpile. Much like stocks, nobody wants to buy high and sell low. And I can understand their aggravation.

But 4 years into the game... the demand will never be what it once was. Nerfing speed clears etc. isn't going to increase the demand. Once the farmers rage quit, we may even see a drop in demand. (for ecto mainly)

I think the most telling clue as to my theory is that there aren't many complaints about speed-booking, dungeon-running, group speed-clears etc... It's the ecto farmers that everyone is complaining about. To me... The righteous indignation is pathetically transparent.

So yeah... it's all about status. I mean honestly... when was the last time you went shopping irl and complained that prices were too low?!?!?!

aleaf92 · Oct 12, 2009, 02:08 PM // 14:08

I don't know if the other posts touched on this, but you can't compare GW economy to RL economy because:

a. When I need milk, I don't go to my cow, but to the store i.e. I don't add more milk to the circulation. With ectos, I just use them for high-end trades, but if I needed them for FoW armor, I would jump on my permasin and farm them.

b. Oil was at a record high just before the global bubble burst because oil is the world's gold. The economy seemed like it was doing fine, but September 2008 rolled along, and people were like shit oil has been overvalued because the Americans have flooded the market with the USD. GW's bubble is UWSC, and when the UWSC bubble bursts expect gold's value to drop. (Gold has been stagnant, and the commodities related to the SC have dropped in value. When ectos stop flooding the market people will rush to the rare material trader and buy loads of ectos at 4k, and they themselves will push the value of the ecto up.)

Quaker · Oct 12, 2009, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

.......I think the most telling clue as to my theory is that there aren't many complaints about speed-booking, dungeon-running, group speed-clears etc...

Well, let me be the first person to complain to you about speed-booking, etc.

And, then, let me say that anyone has the "right" to play GW anyway they want.

But, then, consider this. Guild Wars (PvE-wise) was originally thought of as an RPG. That's "Role Playing Game" for those who forgot. That means that the PvE part of the game was based around the common ideas of developing your character, progressing through the game, questing, exploring, opening chests, etc. - all the classic RPG/D&D gameplay features. (Just compare the journey through Prophecies as compared to later chapters.)
RPGs are meant to be enjoyed for the game itself - it's not the destination, but the journey, that matters.

What GW has become is a "game" in which people no longer want to actually "do" any quests or dungeons - they just want to run through the content as fast as possible to get ..... (I dunno what?). I wouldn't be surprised if ANet started selling the Unlock Everything Pack in the store. The UEP would start you off with the map all cleared, all titles maxed, your choice of max FoW/elite armors, a VS, CC, and BDS, all skills, 1 of each max weapon mod, and some new emotes. It would sell like hotcakes - but not to me.

GW is dead. R.I.P.

Curo · Oct 12, 2009, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by aleaf92

(Gold has been stagnant, and the commodities related to the SC have dropped in value. When ectos stop flooding the market people will rush to the rare material trader and buy loads of ectos at 4k, and they themselves will push the value of the ecto up.)

Which is what we are seeing now. All it took was a twitter comment and ectos/shards have risen considerably.

You can obviously tell by the way that the market has been flooded with golds that there is deflation. A perfect sword mod no longer costs 15-20k. But, what's happening now because of RR day, and it may actually be a good thing, is inflation. Just look at the price of black dye that has risen to a cap of 11k in only a few days. It's sad that we need inflation to drive prices up, because giving people more gold to spend doesn't really solve the problem. What we need is more gold sinks. If merchants start selling ZKeys, I guarantee the economy will begin to stabilize.

The main difference between guild wars and real life, as many have said is the infinite resources. Add more people to a real life economy, and demand goes up, but supply stays the same, and prices go up. Add more people the the guild wars economy (more people buying the game), and supply goes up, but demand doesn't, and prices go down. But of course the main problem is not that more people buy the game, it's that more people try to milk as much as they can out of the game. It's the people that overfarm, and use bots that drive prices down. Because of these people, there is WAY too much supply, and prices have tanked. What we really need is some kind of "farming limit" (where only X amount of a certain item can drop for a player in a given amount of time), as controversial as that may be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

RPGs are meant to be enjoyed for the game itself - it's not the destination, but the journey, that matters.

What GW has become is a "game" in which people no longer want to actually "do" any quests or dungeons - they just want to run through the content as fast as possible to get ..... (I dunno what?)

I agree completely. It is no longer about playing and experiencing the game. I think the whole "GW2 means you need to max all your titles asap" mentality has done this to us. That's basically the whole reason everyone is trying to get rich as fast as possible.

AlsPals · Oct 12, 2009, 05:00 PM // 17:00

There is actually plenty of people who play the game for what it is, its just most of us old heads don't notice...we are probably in the district of an outpost just long enough to decide our h/h setup. What went wrong was not swiftly stopping some excessively lucrative farms, buffing Shadow Form in the first place, making what could have been goal-oriented acquisitions(Effen Dwarven Axes and Elemental Swords being given away essentially) shortening the games lifespan as a whole. Then, there are holiday gold sinks that could have been models for newer, more fun gold sinks(Imagine if Costume Brawls let teams wager...)that were never realized. All im saying is there never seemed to be a speciffic direction Anet wanted to go in after they found PvP not to be the end all be all of the game, but instead of letting PvE endgame focus on better challenges and rarer items, Dumb ass easy mode instruments ala Consets and PvE skills opened up the possiblity to abuse farming to the point where most items were so sufficiently attainable that
A:You were going to find it within a few hundred 30 minute speed runs or
B:You will get flooded with enough money to buy it from someone else.

dunky_g · Oct 12, 2009, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlsPals

Man, when that nerf finally does come, I may have to stop playing GW2 to see how the old game fares.

hero!

1234567890

kupp · Oct 12, 2009, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlsPals

Man, when that nerf finally does come, I may have to stop playing GW2 to see how the old game fares.

I'm posting on this thread just to say how much this post made me laugh.

Zebideedee · Oct 14, 2009, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Maybe the community should stop worshipping the ecto?

Oct 11, 2009, 02:19 PM // 14:19	#1
drunk n angry Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: in a quiet little town that i love. Guild: Ancient Dragoons [AGED] Profession: W/	guild wars economy? hi guys> i have heard so many times how the guildwars economy is in the tank, but my question is how? i usually hear this when people talk about uwsc's causing the cost of ecto to drop. or the red resign days dropping zkeys to 4kand under. but isnt this actually the opposite of a bad economy? when your guild wars gold can buy you more that makes the economy good right? i mean when i go to the store and i can buy 2 loaves of bread for a dollar i dont complain and say man this economy is crap that my dollar gets me 2 loaves of bread i should only be able to get one. if your gw gold gets you more isnt the economy good? eventually when they nerf uwsc's ectos will go back up and obby armor will cost more to attain again. and ectos will be hoarded again. is it i'm wondering if its the people who hoarded ectos and zkeys from when they were 5k plus and thought the price would only go up who now think the economy is bad? but that does not reflect the economy, that is what you call a bad investment. dont invest in things that generate themselves and you will be able to retain your gold better. things like the kunavang are great investments as they will not be released again so there is a limited number of them and even a more limited number of them that are undedicated. just my thoughts of the day> converse peoples

Oct 14, 2009, 12:43 PM // 12:43	#20
Zebideedee Jungle Guide Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: 55?? 57' 0" N / 3?? 12' 0" W Profession: N/Me	Maybe the community should stop worshipping the ecto? Last edited by Zebideedee; Oct 14, 2009 at 12:47 PM // 12:47..

Oct 11, 2009, 03:12 PM // 15:12	#2
Island Guardian Krytan Explorer Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kam AD1 farming ^^ Guild: Do it for [FAME] Profession: W/E	no. more noobs buy more bread. bread now is in a shortage when it shouldnt be. bread is needed for life. no bread=death. bad econ.

Oct 11, 2009, 03:22 PM // 15:22	#3
Quaker Hell's Protector Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Brothers Disgruntled	It's all relative. In the case of the loaves of bread, the economy is good for you because you get two loaves of bread for 1 dollar, but it's not good for the baker who used to get 1 dollar for each loaf. In the real world, that might mean that bakers would go bankrupt, stores would close and unemployment would rise. In GW, it's all fantasy gold in a fantasy world, so there are no real consequences. However, with ecto, for example, getting an ecto as a drop during "normal" game play would not be as much of a big deal when farmers get them easily and sell them cheap. Also, things that require ectos, such as FoW armor, lose their status because they become so much easier to get. So, for those non-farmer players, who were counting on getting the occasional rare ecto drop to help pay for things, the economy has gone bad. And, to some extent, the very essence of the game (as an RPG), has been lost.

Oct 11, 2009, 03:25 PM // 15:25	#4
Killerminds Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: For 5...21 seconds I CAN take damage Guild: Union Of Light Form Users Profession: W/	Its gone bad because things we spent hours getting can now be obtained by pressing 1-2-3.

Oct 11, 2009, 03:38 PM // 15:38	#5
Devastating Flames Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2008 Guild: The Canthan Defenders Profession: E/Mo	i think the economy is good atm and is high in gw cost of ectos are up 18-20 for 100k arm braces 50e+ and many other going way higher

Oct 11, 2009, 04:21 PM // 16:21	#6
Mylina Academy Page Join Date: Jun 2009 Profession: Mo/	Wait until SF get's nerfed, that'll be fun.

Oct 11, 2009, 05:37 PM // 17:37	#9
Yawgmoth Furnace Stoker Join Date: Apr 2005	An economy in a GAME is also an important REWARDING TOOL - a good strong economy ensures that players are properely rewarded for their play. It's getting BAD when it's the opposite, examples: -Loot scaling greatly limits pure cash entering the economy but it doesn't limit Gold items - ridiculous overfarm in Hard Mode is possible (15+ golds per hour) while there's not enough gold in the economy to pay for all those -> golds and mods from them are close to worthless. It's BAD because it killed the value of drops players that don't do extreme farming get, especially from CHESTS, which have keys/lockpicks costs not changed upon introduction of loot scaling (effectively costing about 2x as much) but value of their drops is far far smaller. -A player with many accounts could get a TON of Z-KEYS per month from XTH for doing practically nothing, the gains were comparable to what an active PvP player made in a whole month of playing. They were getting the same rewards but it hurts the player who had to 'work' for them because they were worth significantly less. Cheap items like golds or Z-Keys don't make the economy good, it's exactly the opposite - cheap or too cheap stuff makes the game LESS REWARDING for those who actually play it (as opposed to abusing it) - this makes a BAD game economy.

Oct 11, 2009, 06:57 PM // 18:57	#10
Reformed Jungle Guide Join Date: Aug 2009	Whatever damage you seem to think happened to the reserve side of GW took place in 2007 and occasionally we get a hiccup. It's easier now than ever before to amass wealth so instead of being prudent (or patient) you have even more fast money flooding the marketplace in a system with unlimited resources. The hustlers get richer and the workers blow their savings on shiny crap they don't need.

Oct 11, 2009, 07:40 PM // 19:40	#11
Eskimoz Academy Page Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: My house Profession: W/	It's called "deflation" friend.....and it sucks.

Oct 12, 2009, 02:08 PM // 14:08	#14
aleaf92 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New York City, New York Profession: Mo/	I don't know if the other posts touched on this, but you can't compare GW economy to RL economy because: a. When I need milk, I don't go to my cow, but to the store i.e. I don't add more milk to the circulation. With ectos, I just use them for high-end trades, but if I needed them for FoW armor, I would jump on my permasin and farm them. b. Oil was at a record high just before the global bubble burst because oil is the world's gold. The economy seemed like it was doing fine, but September 2008 rolled along, and people were like shit oil has been overvalued because the Americans have flooded the market with the USD. GW's bubble is UWSC, and when the UWSC bubble bursts expect gold's value to drop. (Gold has been stagnant, and the commodities related to the SC have dropped in value. When ectos stop flooding the market people will rush to the rare material trader and buy loads of ectos at 4k, and they themselves will push the value of the ecto up.)

Oct 12, 2009, 05:00 PM // 17:00	#17
AlsPals Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: Sellin hot stock tips for pro[fit] Profession: Me/E	There is actually plenty of people who play the game for what it is, its just most of us old heads don't notice...we are probably in the district of an outpost just long enough to decide our h/h setup. What went wrong was not swiftly stopping some excessively lucrative farms, buffing Shadow Form in the first place, making what could have been goal-oriented acquisitions(Effen Dwarven Axes and Elemental Swords being given away essentially) shortening the games lifespan as a whole. Then, there are holiday gold sinks that could have been models for newer, more fun gold sinks(Imagine if Costume Brawls let teams wager...)that were never realized. All im saying is there never seemed to be a speciffic direction Anet wanted to go in after they found PvP not to be the end all be all of the game, but instead of letting PvE endgame focus on better challenges and rarer items, Dumb ass easy mode instruments ala Consets and PvE skills opened up the possiblity to abuse farming to the point where most items were so sufficiently attainable that A:You were going to find it within a few hundred 30 minute speed runs or B:You will get flooded with enough money to buy it from someone else.